musings of wrath

A reminder of the loss of my friend Harry, 2 years ago.

A muslim friend said:

“God, no matter what name you give him, cries equally for all of his children.”

Lately, I’ve been questioning my beliefs - and realizing that a good number of my pagan beliefs came from the fact that I was raised Catholic - king of the pagan religions with a bit of Christianity thrown in.

Things have been happening in the world to make me rethink what may/may not exists, and why WE exist.

What right have we to tell each other how to live? What right has anyone to tell us how to live? Laws, common sense ones, are good and all that - someone has to be the authority figure.. But what right does that to give them to tell us how to THINK?

That’s my problem with many religious leaders of ALL kinds..

Anyone want to help?

there are two sorts of religions, one is orthodox… right rules or dogma basically. The other is orthoprax… right actions or practice.

Many of the orthoprax religions don’t care how you think, what rules you belive, if you believe in a god or not… they’re not about who’s got the right ideas.

I agree. I haven’t felt that there really is a religion that sticks with me more than Wicca (but that’s just me) because all of the religions I have looked into, there is always a question of “why?” in one aspect of one, in this aspect of another and so on. I can’t really say that I can’t find those kinds of questions as of yet with Wicca. But that’s also what the freedom of religion is for, it allows us to choose which one most fits us if any at all. Did you know that sometime in the last two or three years, Wicca is now an accepted religion in the military? I think that’s pretty sweet.

~Care Bear

Can you give some examples of orthoprax religions?

I have some ideas, but.. I don’t want to just spout off incorrectly
I suppose not being sure comes from focusing on orthodox religions.

I love the rules and ideas behind Wicca - but I’ve seen a lot of people who claim it and abuse it, unfortunately.

Wicca and Pagan seem to be interchangeable, when they’re really not at all..

As far as Wicca being accepted religion in the military - not really .. It’s something you can list as a religion, but they treat you like crap for it, in some cases. Hell, G.W. has been trying to reverse that since the day he stepped into office.

It was in ‘97 that it was added, btw - by Clinton.

Many old Indian religions are orthoprax… Hindu religions, Buddhism… I’m not that well versed in Eastern practices, so I can’t give you a definitive list.

It’s not all Eastern practices, either. It’s just another approach.

I’ve been exploring spirituality much more since 1998; I’ve been much happier with myself when I let go of my Christian security blanket. I didn’t think outside of the Judeo/Christian box until I met some people who did. Then things clicked with me. My beliefs are a combination of things–Celtic and Native American Shamanism, Wicca, Druidry, and perhaps colored by my Christian upbringing (I don’t follow the religion any more, but I don’t deny the existence either). I’ve taken tons of those online quizzes to find out what religion best suits me and I come up with Neopagan every time. If I take a more detailed one on neopagan religions–I come up Wiccan, followed by Druid, followed by Shaman and that pretty much fits me although I don’t call myself Wiccan, I call myself a Bard because that is what I am in a very spiritual sense.

Keep asking yourself questions, maybe meditate (if you don’t already), read lots of different things on spirituality/religion/philosophy/psychology, and keep searching. I think someone once said as long as we’re still searching, we’re still alive (Definitely a paraphrase, but I didn’t make it up either). Sounds to me like you have a direction and that’s a good thing!

Religion isn’t about telling you what to think (or rather it should not be). It should be about helping you understand what you believe. This is a common misunderstanding of people who grow up and then begin to question their religion. It often doesn’t survive first contact with reality (thus why many preacher’s kids so violently reject their strict upbringing). If however, you have been raised to question things (including you own beliefs) then those challenges of faith are eaiser to accept and reconcile.

In the end, there are always going to be questions that you cannot answer empirically or even via someone else explaining it to you. Those you end up taking on faith, and that faith springs up from what you believe inside. Faith supports belief not the other way around. All to often you will see religious leaders attempting to tell people what to beleive and even how to think. This does them all a disservice, for those beleifs are not supported by faith and thus cannot stand up to any serious challenge (except by denial). This is why I was happy with the Catholic school where I went for 9 years. We were taught to challenge our own faith and though mine suffered horribly when the real tough tests came, in the end the bedrock of my faith was not substitantivly changed.

Quick example of this was my early beleif that all abortion was wrong and that God meant for women to die if their pregnancy would cause it. Over time I realized that view was just parroting what others had said and the more I thought about it the better I was able to refine my view. Now I still feel that abortion is not the best choice, but I also respect that it is a choice for someone to make and more importantly the gov’t has no right to get into morality that does not directly effect the public good.

It’s not religion that matters, it’s the belief. It will always come down to what you feel in your heart and spirit, rather than what you say. It’s a lot easier to act one way and feel another, the real task is to be true to your beliefs.

I struggle everyday to uphold what I believe in. I also fail miserably on a daily basis. But I’m lucky, I guess, that my beliefs allow for error. I believe in forgiveness, not punishment, and understanding rather than judging. I guess I’m pretty unusual for a Christian. I’ve made an effort to expand my beliefs, and I think I succeed. I still mess up, but who doesn’t? It all comes down to one thing…what matters most to you.

No one can tell you how to feel. Well, they can tell you how to feel, but they can’t force you to feel like they do. Freedom is the heart of belief. Structure is the heart of religion. I think there’s a reason that the government has so many problems juggling both. They’re nearly mutually exclusive. It’s a fine line to walk, and I think the government has crossed the line.

That’s my bit of editorializing. I know that you understand better than most where I’m coming from, having a similar upbringing. I value you, and by that same statement, your beliefs. I’m going to try my hardest to be there for you when you question them, and I only hope that I can find the right answers to give you.

I’m not sure if I consider myself pagan anymore.. We’ll see..

as far as the meditation - it’s become more difficult to succeed since I’ve started the self-examination of my faith/beliefs.

Religion isn’t about telling you what to think (or rather it should not be). It should be about helping you understand what you believe.

Amen. “It is true.”

Funny that you look at what Catholicism and Christianity are today, and you realize that they are VERY far from what Jesus/Jeshua/Joshua/Christ were trying to teach - laws aren’t as important as the people - if you look at the laws above the people, you’re enslaving them. To have faith work well, you need freedom. Authority is supposed to *serve* the flock, and only come down on it when it is most necessary - like when it kills.

You should pick up and read Joshua - it’s an excellent book.

Faith supports belief not the other way around.

I think you hit it right there.. To believe something, you have to have faith in it.. There’s no way around that..

With the way we’re being force-fed Protestant and Catholic dogma, it makes it difficult, if not impossible, for someone to even know what faith really is.

Quick example of this was my early beleif that all abortion was wrong and that God meant for women to die if their pregnancy would cause it. Over time I realized that view was just parroting what others had said and the more I thought about it the better I was able to refine my view. Now I still feel that abortion is not the best choice, but I also respect that it is a choice for someone to make and more importantly the gov’t has no right to get into morality that does not directly effect the public good.

Funny, I think that’s a perfect description of how I feel about abortion.. Certainly, it’s a right - but I don’t think it should be used as a means of birth control.. There’s MANY safer, cheaper, and simpler ways to achieve that.

I can understand the problems with mediation. I’ve tried doing guided journeys and I can’t do them. I end up having images that have nothing to do with what I’m trying to visualize.

Maybe you won’t end up Pagan, but it doesn’t really matter, does it? You’re searching and what you call yourself isn’t so important as the search. I sound like I’m talking about a mage seeking enlightenment or something .

No one can tell you how to feel. Well, they can tell you how to feel, but they can’t force you to feel like they do. Freedom is the heart of belief. Structure is the heart of religion. I think there’s a reason that the government has so many problems juggling both. They’re nearly mutually exclusive. It’s a fine line to walk, and I think the government has crossed the line.

What bothers me is that kids are raised thinking that there’s only ONE “right way” to have faith or to show that you believe/have faith.

It’s become more important that one PROVE they have faith, than it is that one be left ALONE with their faith.

Everyone, and I mean EVERYONE has a different way of faith and belief. Organized religion only partially comes from structures in the past and family pass-downs - the other part is folks who feel similar - or believe that they do.

The worse part is feeling that you HAVE to believe or HAVE to have faith - isn’t that completely against what many prophets/messiah(s) have taught? Yet today, that portion of some of the older (and more sensible) monotheistic religions ignore that base.

I have a friend who has been dabbling in Buddhism a lot lately - looking at every dharma (however you spell that) until he finds one that fits him.

Hmm.. maybe I should look at getting some books in Buddhism..

Out of curiousity, do I know you? Lots of people read my LJ that have never added me to their friends list and vice versa.. If so - how do I know you?

Maybe you won’t end up Pagan, but it doesn’t really matter, does it? You’re searching and what you call yourself isn’t so important as the search. I sound like I’m talking about a mage seeking enlightenment or something .

No, it doesn’t really matter what I call myself - labels aren’t all that important. The search hasn’t been easy.

And it’s not really all that far from the mage concept of enlightenment.. When you’re at peace with your faith, and then at peace with your beliefs - what can bother you at that point? Not much..

You’re on my friendsfriends page… we both have mokole as a friend